and president obama did a little bit of that but in this very disengaged law/professor-type of approach. some people think it is harder for the president to be nasty, be tough because then he comes across as an angry black man who is going to scare people. i don't know, but for whatever reason it -- he just did not push back. he did not engage. >> i think also the lack of audience noise was an issue and the way the debate was staged. it added to this lack of energy. remember, this is a year when most people watching debates on television or getting their news are used to the kind of roar of the crowd. they used to tweet, they are used to crowd engagement. to have two people quiet ligating on the stage in a professorial way is quite alien for most american people today. >> there's that same perception that it is reality, even liberal pundits were critical of the president. a lot of the post and headlines today will say mitt romney won this debate. they are both going out on the road today, they are back in campaign mode, there's another vice presidential debate before they go head-to-hea